When reading ch.8 I believe that Oats did not commit suicide because he gave up his life for others. Oats underlying reason to die was not for himself it was for his fellow soldiers. Suicide to me is when someone decides to die for their own personal reason not for others. Suicide is the decision made by an individual without considering how it could affect others the person feels like it is their only option.
Emily, I have to agree with you. Usually with suicide a person does it for him or herself. Oats knew that everyone was going to die, so instead of having everyone die he just allowed himself to be killed in their place.
I agree with Emily and Tonya suicide is something that person does for himself or herself. People that commit suicide have an underlying reason for doing so and cannot live with that reason any longer so they choose to take their own life. In regards to the Oats story in my opinion he did not commit suicide because he saved other soldiers and gave his life for them.
Emily, I agree with you that Oats did not commit suicide. He knew that he was going to die eventually and if he could bring meaning to death so that others might live is heroic and should not be deemed suicide.
I have lost 3 people I went to high school with from suicide. One was a suicide by hanging and the other two were suicide from heroin overdose. It is very sad and tragic that these people died at such a young age. To have people you grew up with and talked to and played sports with just take their life is a complete shock. My county is very bad for heroin and to see people kill themselves because of this drug is astounding. The one girl take overdosed, I played volleyball with for years. She was smart and very pretty and was very popular at school. She was a cheerleader and played volleyball and very successful at school. She also had a very young daughter, around the age of one. I believe it was not her intention of dying when she shot up, however she knew it was a possibility and chose to do it anyway. It is very sad all the family, friends, and daughter she left behind. I have seen and felt the impact that suicide has on not only friends, but a community as well. Perhaps the most shocking thing about suicide is that all the people who committed suicide were not outcasts. They had so many friends and family and were very loved. They weren't bullied or abused. They were very successful in their lives and they still chose suicide. This is probably the most shocking thing if it all.
Tonya I am sorry to hear of these losses. In the book it says that for every suicide by an individual six other people are affected. This number seemed low to me because usually when their is a suicide it is broad cast on the news. Usually a whole community is affected.
After reading Oats' story, I would have to agree with Emily and Tonya that he did not commit suicide. Oats decision to walk into the blizzard was preceded with the knowledge that by his death, the other two journeyers could survive. I define suicide as a selfish act in which you take your own life. When one commits suicide, they are only thinking of themselves, not those who they leave behind. This is not to say those who commit suicide are evil. Although it is a selfish act, I don't think you could say every person who commits suicide has the intention of hurting their loved ones. Sometimes it seems like the only way out of a situation. Throughout my time in high school, 5 alumni committed suicide, including the sibling of one of my classmates as well as a girl I played softball with. Following my senior year, a close family friend also committed suicide. The hardest thing for me to come to terms with is how that person could leave families and friends behind, particularly in the case of my family friend. Whenever I see his wife or his kids I can't help but wonder how life could come to the point where the only way out is through death.
I also agree with the other commenters that Oates did not commit suicide since his intent was to save the others that he was journeying with, rather than just to die. It was a selfless act of bravery and loyalty for him to do this even though he knew he could possibly die. I actually really like the definition given in the text by Velasquez (bottom of page 148) because it says that the acts/omissions must be intentional and carried out for the purpose of bringing about death. This would eliminate things such as pushing someone out of the way of a street only to be hit by a car and die, because the purpose was not to die but rather to save someone else. In addition, I agree with Meghan that suicide is a selfish concept overall, and dying to save someone else is a final act of selflessness rather than selfishness. I have not had a lot of exposure to suicide. Two people from my high school committed suicide, and while I didn't know them personally, it was still hard because I went to a small school and many of my friends did know them so I saw the effects it had on them. I also volunteered at St. Elizabeth last year in the ED and there was one case where a 12 year old had attempted suicide which really hit home for me because my little sister is only 12 and I cannot even fathom her or anyone her age trying to take their own life. I don't even know if I really understood what suicide was at that age. It is just such a permanent solution to a temporary problem in many cases and pains me that it is becoming so prevalent in our society.
Kristin, i think your take on Oates definitely has some merits to it, specially when considering the definition provided by Velasquez. the two cases of suicide at our high school were tragic events that affected the entire school. I feel that your final statement is the most true of all as suicide is sadly becoming more prevalent in our society.
I personally hold the broad definition of suicide as killing of the self. Whether the intent for the suicide is good or bad has no bearing on whether we call it suicide or not. I feel that dr. Christensen gave us a very useful thought process in class today when he broke down the word "suicide" itself. It literally means killing of the self. That said, I feel that Oates did commit suicide, albeit for a "noble" cause. It was still literally killing of himself (the definition of suicide) even if it was for a good cause. Thus, I do not hold the negative connotation for the term for all cases, but rather only to those to which it applies. I do not have experience myself with suicide, except for in the news and things like that. But my definition for suicide does not change based on the situation.
I agree with Cody, I believe Oats did commit suicide. He killed himself, which as Dr. Christensen pointed out, is the literal definition of suicide. Also we are the ones who are saying he didn't want to die. In reality we don't know for sure what he was thinking. It is possible a part of him did want to die for some reason. In most instances of suicide we say we can't understand what a person was thinking. Why should it be any different in this situation? Society refuses to call it suicide possibly in respect to his family, or to help the society to understand. In truth we don't understand, the mind is to complex an organ for us to fully understand its processes .
After our class discussion on suicide and Dr. C's explanation, it makes sense that we consider suicide as the killing of the self. It is interesting though because even as I type this, I still have these negative connotations associated with the word "suicide." In terms of Oates, I too feel like he committed suicide because he walked into his own demise.
I myself, have never even had the tiniest thought about killing myself, but I do have some experiences with suicide. In high school, one of my good friends suffered from depression and would tell me many times that he thought that his life was meaningless. I specifically remember one night, he called me and started to break down and say that he didn't want to live anymore. So I stayed on the line with him for roughly 7 hours and we just talked. That happened about 6 years ago and I still remember almost everything he said to me and just how scared I was that I was going to lose a good friend. I am happy to say that he is doing so much better now and a lot of his dark days are in the past.
I think suicide should be defined the same way we defined it in class, which is the killing of the self. Even though there are mainly negative connotations attached to the word suicide, I think there are acts of suicide that can be justified. We discussed some of these in class, like if a soldier jumped on a grenade to save his comrades. By definition this is still suicide, but it can be justified by knowing that the soldier did this so his fellow soldiers could live.
I agree with Aubrey; however, I do not believe that society is ready to detach the negative emotional connotation of the word suicide. All of our experiences with "suicide" is filled with memories of depression, pain, and loss. We do not normally pair this word with the selflessness of someone purposefully killing themselves for others. Yes the literal definition should be killing of the self; however, I believe the connotation overrides this literal definition for this word in our present society.
I define suicide as the killing of one's self. Like we discussed in class, I have a hard time saying that an army officers who dives on a bomb to save the rest of his unit committed suicide. He choose to sacrifice his life to save others, I think this is heroic and brave and shouldn't be called suicide.
Around this time last year one of my friends from high school took his own life because his girlfriend broke up with him. He was a senior at the time and was already accepted to college where he would also be playing baseball. No one saw it coming at all and it impacted so many people. I would say the definition of suicide is simply killing ones self. Even if it is done heroically, I would still say that is considered suicide because you still took your own life, even if it was for a good reason.
So I was talking to my dad when it came to the topic of suicide and what types of discussions we went over in class within the subject. I think my dad brought up an awesome point when it comes to differentiating suicide from other forms of self-inflicted death. In class we talked about martyrdom on why we weren't able to stomach the acceptance that that is a form of suicide. I mentioned in class that I felt that we have formed a definition of suicide but have tagged a negative connotation onto it. My dad felt that the underlying difference between suicide and other forms of death that may be heroic or for other motives is if the person dying was choosing to die or if the person was willing to die. If the person was choosing to die it could be defined as suicide, but if the person was simply willing to die and this might be for heroic motives, it could be tagged as something other than suicide. What do you guys think?
Jesse, I believe you made a great point. Like what Dr. Christensen (sp?) said, suicide is a term that we as a society have categorized as negative. We seriously need to get everybody on the same page as far as terminology goes. Suicide in my (secular) belief, is just the taking of one's own life. It doesn't matter the reasoning behind it. Just that taking one's own life is, in itself, "taking one's own life".
Jesse, you bring up a great point. I have a hard time labeling a soldier who dies in order to save other people as suicide, for the very reason that suicide has a negative connotation behind it. I view suicide as being negative, even though some people do it to help others, as in the soldier. I think I believe this way because of society and how I was raised.
Suicide I do believe much like Jesse noted has to have either a separate definition or must take into account the motive of the action. I have always viewed the soldiers action as suicide, however, I am willing to attach a secondary definition which accounts for the situation. I don't get hung up on the word suicide because I find it almost irrelevant compared to the underlying reason that the event originally occurred. I do believe that since the word does have a negative connotation that people are afraid to label such actions under that heading, however, I believe that if we would just look past the word itself and focus more on the meaning we would not have such difficulty coming to terms with these examples.
When reading ch.8 I believe that Oats did not commit suicide because he gave up his life for others. Oats underlying reason to die was not for himself it was for his fellow soldiers. Suicide to me is when someone decides to die for their own personal reason not for others. Suicide is the decision made by an individual without considering how it could affect others the person feels like it is their only option.
ReplyDeleteEmily, I have to agree with you. Usually with suicide a person does it for him or herself. Oats knew that everyone was going to die, so instead of having everyone die he just allowed himself to be killed in their place.
DeleteI agree with Emily and Tonya suicide is something that person does for himself or herself. People that commit suicide have an underlying reason for doing so and cannot live with that reason any longer so they choose to take their own life. In regards to the Oats story in my opinion he did not commit suicide because he saved other soldiers and gave his life for them.
DeleteEmily, I agree with you that Oats did not commit suicide. He knew that he was going to die eventually and if he could bring meaning to death so that others might live is heroic and should not be deemed suicide.
DeleteI have lost 3 people I went to high school with from suicide. One was a suicide by hanging and the other two were suicide from heroin overdose. It is very sad and tragic that these people died at such a young age. To have people you grew up with and talked to and played sports with just take their life is a complete shock. My county is very bad for heroin and to see people kill themselves because of this drug is astounding. The one girl take overdosed, I played volleyball with for years. She was smart and very pretty and was very popular at school. She was a cheerleader and played volleyball and very successful at school. She also had a very young daughter, around the age of one. I believe it was not her intention of dying when she shot up, however she knew it was a possibility and chose to do it anyway. It is very sad all the family, friends, and daughter she left behind. I have seen and felt the impact that suicide has on not only friends, but a community as well. Perhaps the most shocking thing about suicide is that all the people who committed suicide were not outcasts. They had so many friends and family and were very loved. They weren't bullied or abused. They were very successful in their lives and they still chose suicide. This is probably the most shocking thing if it all.
ReplyDeleteTonya I am sorry to hear of these losses. In the book it says that for every suicide by an individual six other people are affected. This number seemed low to me because usually when their is a suicide it is broad cast on the news. Usually a whole community is affected.
DeleteAfter reading Oats' story, I would have to agree with Emily and Tonya that he did not commit suicide. Oats decision to walk into the blizzard was preceded with the knowledge that by his death, the other two journeyers could survive. I define suicide as a selfish act in which you take your own life. When one commits suicide, they are only thinking of themselves, not those who they leave behind. This is not to say those who commit suicide are evil. Although it is a selfish act, I don't think you could say every person who commits suicide has the intention of hurting their loved ones. Sometimes it seems like the only way out of a situation. Throughout my time in high school, 5 alumni committed suicide, including the sibling of one of my classmates as well as a girl I played softball with. Following my senior year, a close family friend also committed suicide. The hardest thing for me to come to terms with is how that person could leave families and friends behind, particularly in the case of my family friend. Whenever I see his wife or his kids I can't help but wonder how life could come to the point where the only way out is through death.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with the other commenters that Oates did not commit suicide since his intent was to save the others that he was journeying with, rather than just to die. It was a selfless act of bravery and loyalty for him to do this even though he knew he could possibly die. I actually really like the definition given in the text by Velasquez (bottom of page 148) because it says that the acts/omissions must be intentional and carried out for the purpose of bringing about death. This would eliminate things such as pushing someone out of the way of a street only to be hit by a car and die, because the purpose was not to die but rather to save someone else. In addition, I agree with Meghan that suicide is a selfish concept overall, and dying to save someone else is a final act of selflessness rather than selfishness. I have not had a lot of exposure to suicide. Two people from my high school committed suicide, and while I didn't know them personally, it was still hard because I went to a small school and many of my friends did know them so I saw the effects it had on them. I also volunteered at St. Elizabeth last year in the ED and there was one case where a 12 year old had attempted suicide which really hit home for me because my little sister is only 12 and I cannot even fathom her or anyone her age trying to take their own life. I don't even know if I really understood what suicide was at that age. It is just such a permanent solution to a temporary problem in many cases and pains me that it is becoming so prevalent in our society.
ReplyDeleteKristin, i think your take on Oates definitely has some merits to it, specially when considering the definition provided by Velasquez. the two cases of suicide at our high school were tragic events that affected the entire school. I feel that your final statement is the most true of all as suicide is sadly becoming more prevalent in our society.
DeleteI personally hold the broad definition of suicide as killing of the self. Whether the intent for the suicide is good or bad has no bearing on whether we call it suicide or not. I feel that dr. Christensen gave us a very useful thought process in class today when he broke down the word "suicide" itself. It literally means killing of the self. That said, I feel that Oates did commit suicide, albeit for a "noble" cause. It was still literally killing of himself (the definition of suicide) even if it was for a good cause. Thus, I do not hold the negative connotation for the term for all cases, but rather only to those to which it applies. I do not have experience myself with suicide, except for in the news and things like that. But my definition for suicide does not change based on the situation.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Cody, I believe Oats did commit suicide. He killed himself, which as Dr. Christensen pointed out, is the literal definition of suicide. Also we are the ones who are saying he didn't want to die. In reality we don't know for sure what he was thinking. It is possible a part of him did want to die for some reason. In most instances of suicide we say we can't understand what a person was thinking. Why should it be any different in this situation? Society refuses to call it suicide possibly in respect to his family, or to help the society to understand. In truth we don't understand, the mind is to complex an organ for us to fully understand its processes .
ReplyDeleteAfter our class discussion on suicide and Dr. C's explanation, it makes sense that we consider suicide as the killing of the self. It is interesting though because even as I type this, I still have these negative connotations associated with the word "suicide." In terms of Oates, I too feel like he committed suicide because he walked into his own demise.
ReplyDeleteI myself, have never even had the tiniest thought about killing myself, but I do have some experiences with suicide. In high school, one of my good friends suffered from depression and would tell me many times that he thought that his life was meaningless. I specifically remember one night, he called me and started to break down and say that he didn't want to live anymore. So I stayed on the line with him for roughly 7 hours and we just talked. That happened about 6 years ago and I still remember almost everything he said to me and just how scared I was that I was going to lose a good friend. I am happy to say that he is doing so much better now and a lot of his dark days are in the past.
I think suicide should be defined the same way we defined it in class, which is the killing of the self. Even though there are mainly negative connotations attached to the word suicide, I think there are acts of suicide that can be justified. We discussed some of these in class, like if a soldier jumped on a grenade to save his comrades. By definition this is still suicide, but it can be justified by knowing that the soldier did this so his fellow soldiers could live.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Aubrey; however, I do not believe that society is ready to detach the negative emotional connotation of the word suicide. All of our experiences with "suicide" is filled with memories of depression, pain, and loss. We do not normally pair this word with the selflessness of someone purposefully killing themselves for others. Yes the literal definition should be killing of the self; however, I believe the connotation overrides this literal definition for this word in our present society.
DeleteI define suicide as the killing of one's self. Like we discussed in class, I have a hard time saying that an army officers who dives on a bomb to save the rest of his unit committed suicide. He choose to sacrifice his life to save others, I think this is heroic and brave and shouldn't be called suicide.
ReplyDeleteAround this time last year one of my friends from high school took his own life because his girlfriend broke up with him. He was a senior at the time and was already accepted to college where he would also be playing baseball. No one saw it coming at all and it impacted so many people. I would say the definition of suicide is simply killing ones self. Even if it is done heroically, I would still say that is considered suicide because you still took your own life, even if it was for a good reason.
ReplyDeleteSo I was talking to my dad when it came to the topic of suicide and what types of discussions we went over in class within the subject. I think my dad brought up an awesome point when it comes to differentiating suicide from other forms of self-inflicted death. In class we talked about martyrdom on why we weren't able to stomach the acceptance that that is a form of suicide. I mentioned in class that I felt that we have formed a definition of suicide but have tagged a negative connotation onto it. My dad felt that the underlying difference between suicide and other forms of death that may be heroic or for other motives is if the person dying was choosing to die or if the person was willing to die. If the person was choosing to die it could be defined as suicide, but if the person was simply willing to die and this might be for heroic motives, it could be tagged as something other than suicide. What do you guys think?
ReplyDeleteJesse, I believe you made a great point. Like what Dr. Christensen (sp?) said, suicide is a term that we as a society have categorized as negative. We seriously need to get everybody on the same page as far as terminology goes. Suicide in my (secular) belief, is just the taking of one's own life. It doesn't matter the reasoning behind it. Just that taking one's own life is, in itself, "taking one's own life".
DeleteJesse, you bring up a great point. I have a hard time labeling a soldier who dies in order to save other people as suicide, for the very reason that suicide has a negative connotation behind it. I view suicide as being negative, even though some people do it to help others, as in the soldier. I think I believe this way because of society and how I was raised.
ReplyDeleteSuicide I do believe much like Jesse noted has to have either a separate definition or must take into account the motive of the action. I have always viewed the soldiers action as suicide, however, I am willing to attach a secondary definition which accounts for the situation. I don't get hung up on the word suicide because I find it almost irrelevant compared to the underlying reason that the event originally occurred. I do believe that since the word does have a negative connotation that people are afraid to label such actions under that heading, however, I believe that if we would just look past the word itself and focus more on the meaning we would not have such difficulty coming to terms with these examples.
ReplyDelete